Mass Debate Gay Marriages? Men on Mars? Latest News?
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05-06-2008, 10:36 PM
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Shark
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Join Date: 24 Oct 2005
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Location: Bangor
Posts: 10,366
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haha. good.
__________________
so so what?
i’m still a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t need you
and guess what?
i’m having more fun
and now that we’re done
i’m gonna show you tonight
i’m alright, i’m just fine
and you’re a tool
so so what?
i am a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t want you tonight
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05-06-2008, 11:32 PM
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Deer
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Join Date: 04 May 2007
Sex: Female
Location: canaduh
Posts: 1,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Kerry*
hmm, i dont think that is pro choice. i think that's pro abortion for cases in which the mother shouldn't have been having sex in the first place. but anti abortion for those who you deem capable of raising a child?
o_o
no, i was just there when it slipped out. i was having a bath and she was about to get in with me. must have just thought she was having her period until it fell out so there wasn't really much choice about me seeing it or not.
i dont think it's fucked up to keep it for a while, some women grieve that way. i mean srsly when it comes out that well formed it must be so difficult to deal with. what are you supposed to do? flush it?
chloe, i dont think maternal instinct and love is peculiar to age or wisdom(?) when you give birth naturally and nurse or just hold your baby your body releases a flood of hormones that will *make* you love your baby even if you're not mature enough to understand the complexities of love.
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I didn't know about the hormone+love bit. That's interesting whoa.
I dunno about others obviously but I just don't think that I, personally, would have been able to love mine with my mental state at the time. I was hospitalized in the psych ward of a hospital for a good part of the time I was pregnant. I think I woulda had either postpartum depression or suffered a serious breakdown after the birth fo sure.
+ what happens with women who suffer from postpartum? Why don't those love hormones work for them so well? : s
Last edited by figure8; 05-06-2008 at 11:34 PM.
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05-06-2008, 11:45 PM
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Bear
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Join Date: 23 May 2006
Age: 18
Sex: Male
Location: Amman, Jordan
Posts: 5,987
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you guys suck at rules.
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05-06-2008, 11:46 PM
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Shark
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Join Date: 11 Mar 2005
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Location: Scunthorpe
Posts: 13,697
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oI! I did it right!  |
06-06-2008, 12:01 AM
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Bear
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Join Date: 13 Feb 2005
Age: 17
Sex: Female
Posts: 7,382
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pretty sure not everyone loves their baby as soon as it pops out.
and i don't know how to argue this topic because i am on the fence about abortionnn. sighh.
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06-06-2008, 01:01 AM
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Elephant
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Join Date: 07 Mar 2007
Age: 20
Sex: Male
Posts: 3,237
Rep Power: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Kerry*
chloe, i dont think maternal instinct and love is peculiar to age or wisdom(?) when you give birth naturally and nurse or just hold your baby your body releases a flood of hormones that will *make* you love your baby even if you're not mature enough to understand the complexities of love.
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Postnatal Depression blows that notion out of the water.
Edit: I just realised Chloe covered this point.
__________________
the saviour has returned
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.
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06-06-2008, 01:34 AM
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Shark
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Join Date: 24 Oct 2005
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Location: Bangor
Posts: 10,366
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you must have heard of oxytocin?
Quote:
Oxytocin: the facts
Oxytocin is released from the posterior pituitary gland located in the brain. Both women and men release it during lovemaking. Oxytocin also triggers and regulates contractions during labour and birth and enables milk to be let down and ejected during breastfeeding. After the birth the level of oxytocin can be higher than during labour. This is protective because it makes sure the uterus squeezes down, stopping bleeding after birth and expelling the placenta and membranes. It also helps connect us to our beautiful, wide-eyed babies.
Of all the hormones in the body, oxytocin probably gives us the greatest happiness in life. The prototype for the effect of this "hormone of love" has to be the amazing love a mother has for her baby. Oxytocin may in fact be an important influence on who we become later in life. Messing with it could be messing with the very blueprint of life!
The bad news
Oxytocin is under threat in our society and with this threat come serious consequences. Fear and stress are probably two of the greatest threats to the hormone. Michel Odent, the famous French obstetrician, writes in his book The Scientification of Love that the price the human race has paid for civilisation is problems with low sex drive, difficult childbirth and difficulties breastfeeding.
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michel odent is fab, look him up on youtube or something i'm sure you'll find him.
anyway, the release of these hormones is inhibited by ceasereans, epidurals and other interventions and being frightened during labour but also not having lots of contact with the baby immediately after birth. it's not that the hormones are released and just dont work for women with PPD, it's that they arent released correctly in the first place because of other issues like a traumatic, interventionalist birth or life stress.
__________________
so so what?
i’m still a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t need you
and guess what?
i’m having more fun
and now that we’re done
i’m gonna show you tonight
i’m alright, i’m just fine
and you’re a tool
so so what?
i am a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t want you tonight
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06-06-2008, 01:53 AM
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Shark
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Join Date: 24 Oct 2005
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Location: Bangor
Posts: 10,366
Rep Power: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen
Postnatal Depression blows that notion out of the water.
Edit: I just realised Chloe covered this point.
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how does it? whatever age a woman is she will release these love hormones. that's what we were talking about, whether maturity makes a difference to how much a mother will love her child. of course there are cases when the hormones arent released correctly because of mental illness but all that proves is that pathology hinders normal processes, which is obvious.
__________________
so so what?
i’m still a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t need you
and guess what?
i’m having more fun
and now that we’re done
i’m gonna show you tonight
i’m alright, i’m just fine
and you’re a tool
so so what?
i am a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t want you tonight
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06-06-2008, 04:16 AM
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Elephant
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Join Date: 07 Mar 2007
Age: 20
Sex: Male
Posts: 3,237
Rep Power: 5
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I've never agreed with Oxytocin, actually. I've always understood Oxytocin to be released when we form an attachment or a bond with another human being, in this case a newly born child, and that without this love, the Oxytocin can't be released.
I refuse to believe that our bodies release a torrent of this hormone that dictates to us that we should love this child. Love is mind controlled. We are the ones who are supposed to dicatate our feelings of love, not some amino acid.
I know the majority of this is scientifically proven but I still refuse to believe it, or I just don't understand love.
__________________
the saviour has returned
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.
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06-06-2008, 12:53 PM
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Shark
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Join Date: 24 Oct 2005
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Location: Bangor
Posts: 10,366
Rep Power: 1
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i know what you mean, i had a hard time with it too thinking love isn't a hormone it's an emotion blah blah and love having an actual scientific explanation is a little unromantic but it makes more sense now. it's for survival, if it wasn't released there would be a lot more abandoned babies and mothers would be less attuned to their baby's needs, so it's in the species interests. and the idea of love as a chemical isn't so weird anymore, i mean just before and during the first days of my period i am horrible and depressed and grouchy and emotional and it's because of hormones, i've accepted that hormones are responsible so why not accept it in the case of loving feelings towards a baby.
oxytocin isn't the whole picture of course, it's just the initial flood that helps ensure a bond and therefore, survival. there's more to love than oxytocin, but it helps, is what i'm tryna say.
have you read 'the four loves' by cs lewis?
__________________
so so what?
i’m still a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t need you
and guess what?
i’m having more fun
and now that we’re done
i’m gonna show you tonight
i’m alright, i’m just fine
and you’re a tool
so so what?
i am a rock star
i got my rock moves
and i don’t want you tonight
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06-06-2008, 01:26 PM
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Elephant
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Join Date: 07 Mar 2007
Age: 20
Sex: Male
Posts: 3,237
Rep Power: 5
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Yeah, I'm usually the first to argue that everything can be proved by science and on further investigation into Oxytocin, it appears I have to eat my own words. The scientific evidence is incontrovertible, there is no way I can argue against it but I still don't think it's as black and white as that.
I have not, I know the basic jist of the story though.
__________________
the saviour has returned
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.
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08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
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Bear
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Join Date: 23 May 2006
Age: 18
Sex: Male
Location: Amman, Jordan
Posts: 5,987
Rep Power: 8
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This topic seems to have died.
Next Topic:
Father's rights - What rights do you think Men should have when it comes to abortion etc. Remember to argue the opposite side.
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26-10-2008, 03:30 PM
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Bacteria
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Join Date: 26 Oct 2008
Age: 15
Sex: Female
Location: England
Posts: 35
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Tey should have full controll on wether the woman gets an abortion or not
[my fingers are traitores for typing that >.>]
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