This thread will make you believe in God...

[Mujahideen]

...or not, if the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is a success.

I've known about this for a few years at least now, many of you will have heard about it a few months ago and for the idiots amongst us this will be the first time hearing about it. Yes, on the September 10th at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, 100 metres under the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva, Switzerland, the first attempt will be made to circluate a beam through the Large Hadron Collider after the intial particle beams were injected on August 8th and once the magnets have pre-cooled to -193.2°C using 10, 080 tonnes of liquid nitrogen and filled with nearly 60 tonnes of liquid helium to bring them down to the temperature of absolute zero (-271 °C). The beams injected into the LHC are protons which are ideal candidates because of their large mass and stability and at full power, trillions of them will race around the LHC accelerator ring which is 27 km in circumference at a staggering 11, 245 times a second. The protons will be travelling at 99.99% the speed of light where scientists intend to collide opposing 7 TeV protons to correspond with head-to-head collisions of 14 TeV. Once these two protons collide, they will generate temperatures more than 100, 000 times hotter than the core of the sun. The main purpose of the cryogenic distribution system is to keep the accelerator cool by circulating superfluid helium around it and this will keep the temperature at absolute zero, ensuring the high-speed proton collisions remain stable.

On October 21st, the first collisions will be made and then we will see, after years of hard work and planning from scientists, whether the Higgs Boson particle (the so called "God Particle") will be produced. If it is, this could help fill in the missing links in the Standard Model of physics. The Standard Model describes three of the four known fundemental interactions among the elementary particles that make up all matter, that being electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. You'll have noticed that gravity, the weakest force compared to the other three, has been left out and this is why the LHC could be fundamental to the Standard Model - it may explain why. If it does, it will unite the four fundamental forces, the mechanism in which particles react with each other and how they acquire mass. Electromagnetism and weak nuclear force have been merged as the electroweak force, and soon the electroweak and quantum chromodynamics will be merged as the QCD-electroweak interaction (electrostrong force). If Gravity is help explained and the missing links are filled in by the LHC collisions, it may be possible to merge gravity with the other three gauge symmetries into the Theory of Everything, which Stephen Hawking has been working all his life towards. This will help unify the five ten-dimensional superstring theories as limits of a single 11-dimensional theory under the mathematical proposal of M-theory in theoretical phsyics.

So as you can see, this experiment is incredibly important, not only can it help unite all the theories under the unified Theory of Everything but it will also recreate the Big Bang by observing the possible conditions that caused it. This will also be a huge step forwards in proving all religion is bullshit if the experiment throws up results it was all orchestrated by phsyical phenonema.

However, no experiment is complete without it's dangers. This will probably be the most dangerous experiment undertaken, ever. For the educated amongst us, you'll have asked yourself 'Scientists are creating a mini Big Bang? High-speed collisions? Isn't that all a bit dangerous?'. Well, yes. The Higgs Boson may not be the only particles formed in the LHC, supersymmetic particles, extra dimensions, strangelets (strange matter) and micro black holes may also be produced. It's not really a question of 'what if', it's more a questions of 'how dangerous will they be?' for strangelets and micro black holes will definitely occur. The question is, will these harmless minature black holes form, survive long enough and merge with others to become a real black hole? No one knows the answer, but the prognosis so far is yes, they can survive long enough to become real black holes and then suck the Earth inside out. In a few weeks, we could all be dead. Religious groups are calling it the end of the world, but I personally think if answers are going to be yielded, experiments with high risks such as this need to be undertaken, otherwise what is the point in waking up in the morning if we are not willing to understand the world around us?

[Kier]

I heard about this on Mock The Week, but wasn't really paying attention to it.

Sounds pretty excititing if there is a black hole...well unless it turns the world inside out and all...but there could be a whole new world on the otherside xD (Btw, I have no idea what I'm talking about with black holes, and cant be arsed to google it).

[Mujahideen]

Lol, it will be fun until we reach the Spaghettification process.

[iona_pixie]

i can't believe some people entirely focusing on the possibility of a black hole being produced. the probability that it will happen is very slight, and anything we do has possible repercussions - surely the experiment is too important to obsess about the world ending as a result? not that we should ignore the possibility, but it's hardly a dead cert.

[Mujahideen]

You're right. I just thought I ought to mention it so people can get a fairly superficial insight into the two sides of the spectrum. Remember, no experiment has been done on such a large magnitude as this before, no one knows what to expect.

[Rubez]

I just wrote out a big reply and lost it lol

I was wondering when you were going to make a thread about this Asda, I never take any notice off all the 'the world is going to end' theorys but this one I have :] I like this article about it;

End of the world is nigh, scientists insist | UK news | The Guardian

The end of the world really could be at hand, scientists warned yesterday, and there are a number of ways it could happen, the British Association science festival in Glasgow heard yesterday.
A strange subatomic particle produced in an atom-smashing experiment could, in theory at least, tumble to the centre of the planet and start eating the globe from the inside out.

Or a random quantum fluctuation in distant space could switch off the machinery that makes matter massive, a step which would trigger off a bubble of destruction that would advance at the speed of light, shutting down all creation in its path.

Or a 1km wide asteroid could sweep in from the southern skies, hit Australia at 20kms a second and gouge out a crater 10km across, throwing huge lumps of rock into orbit. Forty-five minutes later, blazing fragments of Australia would begin to reduce Britain to ashes.

[DarkaN]

Meh, so what. If we all die it's not like anyone is going to live to regret it.

Then again, theres no telling what kind of scientific breakthroughs this could lead too. In all honistly it'll probly just end up blowing up and killing the idiot scientists who created it. I think it'd be funny if nothing happened at all.

[Kier]

Originally Posted by DarkaN

Meh, so what. If we all die it's not like anyone is going to live to regret it.

What happens to the people in space?

[Mujahideen]

Sooner or later, they'll be pulled into the Black Hole.

[jren207]

If it were an end of the world thing, i'd just think it was a movie, until well...

[/endofworld]

[BlueNGreen]

Ooooh sounds like great fun. I hope it works though, it could really push the human race forward a step in knowledge.

[DarkaN]

Originally Posted by Kier

What happens to the people in space?

After 6 pills im in space, do i count?

[Mujahideen]

Ahh, just when I thought I had created an intelligent thread for intelligent discussion.

[DarkaN]

you did create an intelligent thread for intelligent discussion on these forums

it's like playing chess with a snail

[Kirstie]

The thing is, there's virtually no chance of the world ending anyway. It's just hype because you say words like 'black hole' to people and because they don't understand them they start freaking out, and then it spreads like crazy.

I'm quite excited about seeing what we'll discover, not just because of what it'll explain and introduce, but also just to see if it works or not. It makes me really sad that I'm not doing physics any longer, because I know my old physics teacher will probably be rambling on for whole lessons about this instead of teaching anyone anything that they actually need to know.

Oh, and have you ever read anything by George Gammow? If you haven't you might quite like him - Amazon.co.uk: Mr Tompkins in Paperback (Canto): Roger Penrose, George Gamow: Books is definately worth getting.

[DarkaN]

I think theres a very real threat of a black hole being created.

These scientists base this on the theory of hawkings radiation, this "radiation" would make these minituare black holes dissapate before they gained mass, hawking radiation is still disputed and not proved.

Einsteins theroy or relativity(which has been proved, many, many times), would suggest that this is infact a very real danger.

Black holes aren't the only danger, Strangelets, while arent proven, could turn the planet into an ice ball

Either which way, There could be a malfunction, this thing creates heat over 100,000 times the core of the sun, and has over 10,000 tones of nitrogen, Thats a big, big bomb.

[Rubez]

^ Where did you copy and paste that from?

[Mujahideen]

Originally Posted by Kirstie

The thing is, there's virtually no chance of the world ending anyway. It's just hype because you say words like 'black hole' to people and because they don't understand them they start freaking out, and then it spreads like crazy.

I'm quite excited about seeing what we'll discover, not just because of what it'll explain and introduce, but also just to see if it works or not. It makes me really sad that I'm not doing physics any longer, because I know my old physics teacher will probably be rambling on for whole lessons about this instead of teaching anyone anything that they actually need to know.

Oh, and have you ever read anything by George Gammow? If you haven't you might quite like him - Amazon.co.uk: Mr Tompkins in Paperback (Canto): Roger Penrose, George Gamow: Books is definately worth getting.

I wish I'd done physics at school. I don't really mind though, I've read enough books and articles on space and physics to more than compensate for my lack of physics in high school.

You are right though, black holes need extreme conditions to form and it is unlikely they will be a threat in they form in the LHC, regardless of how powerful it is. Black holes found in the galaxy form from the collapse of the core regions in a supernova star, causing it to implode. A star is the most powerful energy source in the whole planet, I can't imagine a machine recreating even a fraction of that power.

I have heard of George Gamow, yeah. I haven't read the book though but it does look interesting, I shall definitely give it a read.

[Markeh]

Oooh I've been following this article quite a bit...

Seriously interesting seeing as im a Phsyics geek x(

But yeah, I'm confident there's nothing to worry about. Microscopic unstable wormholes are never going to consume fuck all.

And Strangelets are as people said, unproven and would be a serious fuck up if all the hypothetical theory about how they work suddenly becomes true and the world is turned into a floating lump of Strange Matter...

Pretty much everyone in scientific circles have agreed there's no significant threat, and hey where's the fun in not taking risks..

[DarkaN]

Originally Posted by Rubez

^ Where did you copy and paste that from?

google :'(

Black holes found in the galaxy form from the collapse of the core regions in a supernova star, causing it to implode

The people who say this experement is totally safe, also admit that minitaure black holes WILL happen. Aprox 1 minature black hole a minuite will be created, they say that hawkings radiation(which is unproven) is what will makethese black holes disapate. As i said in my above post, einsteins theory is proven, and suggests that this could very well happen.

Extreme circumstances? like a star imploding? this experement will create 100,000 times the heat of our star. Personally, i'd say that is pretty extreme. A recreation of the big bang is, im my oppinion, far more extreme than re-creating a sun imploding.

Pretty much everyone in scientific circles have agreed there's no significant threat, and hey where's the fun in not taking risks

European Court of Human Rights have already filed a lawsuit to try to stop this happening, and so has a gourp in hawaii.

And Strangelets are as people said, unproven

Just like hawkings theory of this hawking radiation, which is the main factor why these black holes wont gain mass.

Either way, we wont find out for a good few months, this is only a test. It isn't the "full deal".

I'm not saying this will happen, but i just dont think that these scientists should have the right to decide to do this when they know themselves there is a risk this could happen, nomatter how small.

They've even said "we dont know what is going to happen" they dont even know if they are going to find this thing they are looking for, this whole thing is just a stab in the dark, they already have plans on a 37 km version of this project on way, with plans on making it 50km. This is just to "see what happens" and the future projects are to refine the information they get.

Basicly, the main concern is, that these micro black holes, if created by the project, would be near, stationary, for a very short period of time, they could then be caught by the earths gravitational pull and gain mass, thus pulling the earth inside itself within a week or two.

CREN did a review on the subject, and stated that this would be impossible because hawkings radiation would dissapate any micro black hole before it could exit light-speed.

Now, hawkings radiation is totally unproved, and einsteins theory of relativity which has stood every test ever thrown at it, would say otherwise, that these black holes could very well form.

When CREN was asked to review hawkings radiation, this was not addressed, at all.

At the end of the day, these guys don't actually know what they are messing about with. This is an EXPEREMENT, Which means anything could happen, with a device so powerfull it can create heat over 100,000 times the core of our sun. And recreate the begnining of our universe.

Im not trying to make everyone worried, or thing we're all going to die, or whatever, but this could very well happen. It is a very viable possibility.